Blending E85 (or other octane enhancers) with regular 98 octane PULP ??

[_ISF]

Are any IS-F owners on here blending E85 (or other octane enhancers) with regular 98 octane premium unleaded? I came across a thread on a US Lexus forum with quite a few owners trying it, one guy in particular (who lives at altitude so might be different to us here at sea level) said his car loved it and had been doing a bunch of logging back and forth with Rafi from RR Racing. 

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f-2008-2014/837595-will-the-isf-run-well-with-a-blend-of-e85.html

After reading this thread i am tempted to try 5L of E85 next fill and see if there are any differences (either good or bad...5L might not be enough to do anything) and if that goes ok i could try 10L of E85 after that. I have a United service station in my suburb which sells E85 so the inconvenience is minimal. I religiously use BP 98 Ultimate otherwise.

[Babalouie]

Well, it actually might.

You'd think that the ISF ecu works by starting off at a full power setting, and then dialling things back when it detects a problem, but it's actually the other way around. The ecu starts off at a low baseline, and keeps re-sampling when you accelerate to bump up the settings for more power (and then stops when it detects pinging).

Best way to tell for sure if you can log the before and after values for "Knock Correction Learning Value" with your techstream software.

 

[_ISF]

So much for that idea - turns out the United website is incorrect that this service station close by does not have E85...yet. I called in today to have a look. The only service station in the area that does have it is a good 20-25 mins away in an area i never go to - so ill scrap this idea for now.

[Guest]

I've been reading up on this too from the yankies, and wil be putting 5L E85 into mine at the next fill.

[_ISF]

23 hours ago, banserki said:

I've been reading up on this too from the yankies, and wil be putting 5L E85 into mine at the next fill.

Let us know if there is any noticeable difference.

[kalyanhospital]

Nice post and thanks for sharing this thread.

[bazzle]

Could you not use E10 undiluted?

[18ADF]

E10 is rubbish, seen what it can do first hand. Unless it’s tuned specifically for any e85 blend I wouldn’t be touching it. As seeing what it can contribute to the aftermath can be an expensive fix lol

[bazzle]

@18ADF

 

Please 

On 7/12/2018 at 4:53 PM, 18ADF said:

E10 is rubbish, seen what it can do first hand. Unless it’s tuned specifically for any e85 blend I wouldn’t be touching it

Hi. Please educate us more on your findings.

[Blacky]

This is common for some euros with direct injection. 

I know some people running up to their own jungle juice E30. 

It would be worth speaking with a tuner / dyno before you bet you engine on it.

[_ISF]

As an alternative to E85 (a more expensive alternative) i am trying to find where i can buy just 1x single bottle of this stuff to try - as most places want to tell a pack of 6 or 8. This is not just a normal octane booster that you have seen at Supercheap for years and years - this is a whole new ball game for octane boosters and there are plenty of Youtube and forums talking about this and showing the gains on the dyno from nothing more than some Boostane being added to the fuel tank.

https://boostane.com/product/boostane-professional-octane-booster/

Figured i would use 1/2 a bottle (around 500ml) with a full tank of BP Ultimate 98 which should raise the octane from 98 to around 102 RON at that level of concentration to see if you can notice the difference. If so, i will buy some more and use it on occasion for a track day or a trip to the drags. You can use more (eg the whole 1L bottle) to raise the octane level more (calcs suggest the full bottle would raise the octane to around 106-108).

[bazzle]

Would'nt you need to run it for a week or so for computer to properly adjust to get max advantage. 

Toyota engines are know to take up to a months driving to get full benefits from changes (workshop chatter from  my customers)

[_ISF]

15 hours ago, bazzle said:

Would'nt you need to run it for a week or so for computer to properly adjust to get max advantage. 

Toyota engines are know to take up to a months driving to get full benefits from changes (workshop chatter from  my customers)

I dont think you would need to run it for a whole week, but perhaps 50km or so to let it mix evenly in your fuel tank and then allow the car to learn that the octane level is higher so it adjusts timing etc to suit. Im going back to the dyno in about a month so im trying to get my hands on a bottle of this stuff so i can test it out......turns outs getting my hands on a bottle is easier said than done.

[18ADF]

On 7/16/2018 at 8:01 AM, bazzle said:

@18ADF

 

Please 

Hi. Please educate us more on your findings.

One of many of these posts

[_ISF]

Interesting info above - not that i would ever use E10 anyway (unless its a rental car).

Couldn't find anyone with Boostane in stock, so i found a Nulon Pro Strength octane booster product which i have bought and will try when i go back to the dyno in a few weeks to see gains (if any) from opening up the header flange from 2" to 2.5"...the car feels a bit stronger up top but will be good to see what that actually translates to. The Nulon product is supposed to raise octane by as much as 7 points but not sure if it will do so when starting from a base of BP 98....perhaps it will go up to 100-101 octane if i am lucky.

Here is a test that was done where it came 1st place:  http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/Octane-Booster-Shootout.php

[18ADF]

Toluene has always been a favourite of mine, used it a lot instead of going down the e85 route on the last car. Excellent for knock protection and raises ron, at $80 for 20L it’s around the same if not a bit cheaper than Nulon octane pro strength mixing around 5 litres to a tank but is far more effective.

[_ISF]

My mates dad uses moth balls (Naphthalene) to boost the octane in his modified Celica GT-4 and has done so for years and years. I thought he was pulling my leg when he first told me, but apparently its an old school trick.

Toulene also sounds like a good option - price wise seems similar to off the shelf octane boosters. It came a close 2nd place in that test i linked above.

[_ISF]

So im reviving this old thread. I found a Caltex about 5km away from my house that has what they call Biofuel which it states (on the bowser) contains between 70-85% Ethanol. 

About 2 weeks ago i decided to put 10L of Caltex Biofuel in my car before filling the rest of the tank with BP Ultimate 98 which is what i normally use. Given the tank is roughly 64L, this would roughly equate to a 15% blend mix.

Note: The guys in USA are using a 30% mix which is 20L of E85 and the rest 98 - im going to slowly work my way up to 30% over the next 6-8 tanks of fuel and making sure the car is happy along the way.

Also note that my car has an RR Racing ECU tune, and some exhaust work (currently 265kw atw).

After driving around for a few hundred km's, the car certainly feels more responsive and eager and was spinning the tyres in 1st/2nd gear at times when it wouldn't (or rarely would) previously. It's does feel more powerful - i would love to dyno it to see the differences and may decide to do so if i decide to keep running the E85 blend long term. Fuel consumption is noticeably worse, i normally get about 200km of city driving before my fuel gauge is half way, but with the E85 blend i only got about 150km before my fuel gauge was half way.

Anyway, i filled up again the other day from half a tank, using another 10L of Caltex E85 and the rest BP Ultimate 98. This time the E85 mix should be slightly more concentrated because i already had some in the tank from my previous fill.

E85 is roughly $0.20c a litre cheaper than PULP 98 so if you take that into consideration when factoring in the extra fuel consumption, it might be costing you a few dollars per tank.

So far so good - no driveability issues or anything like that. Engine runs smooth as ever. Apart from the increased fuel usage, there are no other negatives at this stage.

I tried to check my knock sensor values the other day with my ebay Techstream cable - but gave up as it is so slow and useless. I have purchased OBD Fusion app which can mate with my Carista bluetooth dongle and can apparently read the knock sensor values along with a host of other values.

I will continue doing this for the next few tanks before i decide whether the car is happy with it longer-term, and if i feel the pros outweigh the cons.

[Guest]

Cheers for the update!

[_ISF]

It's been about 4 weeks now and i have filled up several times with the E85 blend with the most recent fill using 15L of Caltex E85 and the rest BP Ultimate 98 octane (which would mean somewhere around a E25 mix, which is still shy of what the yanks are using but im slowly working my way there and making sure the engine is happy along the way).

Fuel consumption is noticeably worse. After filling up about 10 days ago with the E25 mix, i have driven 230km's and the vast majority of that has been sedate driving (given that its been double demerit points over the past few weeks). I only have 3 bars of fuel left whereas normally i would have 4 or 5 bars left.

And yes the engine feels more responsive and a bit more eager, but im not sure if i will continue down this road for a car that does not go to the dragstrip or track. Given that its a small inconvenience to have to visit 2x fuel stations each time, not knowing exactly what the fuel/ethanol mix is because you always have some fuel left in the tank when you fill up, and a car that is already pretty woeful on fuel (and a small fuel tank) is now even worse on fuel for the couple of times a week i will put my foot down and give it some.

I will fill up again sometime this week, and i think this will be the decider. I might do 18-20L of E85 this time for the full E30 blend effect.

[_ISF]

OK so i am giving up with the E85 blend project. I worked my way up (starting at E15, then E20, then E25 etc etc) to several tanks of E30 blend over about 6-8 fill up's. For my type of driving the difference (which isn't much to begin with) is just not worth the atrocious fuel consumption (22-24L per 100km) and inconvenience of having to visit 2x separate petrol stations each time i fill up.

If i ever take my car to a track day or drag strip etc i would probably use the E30 blend again, but now everyday street driving in a relatively stock IS-F it's just not worth it in my opinion.

Also to note - on Saturday morning i got a CEL and the car went into limp mode (takes off in 2nd gear etc) the error was a cat efficiency code. Not sure if this code was partially brought about by the E30 blend? I was driving sedately at the time as the engine was still warming up and i had my daughter in the car. Although i do occasionally get a similar error code (despite RR Tune and also RR o2 conditioners) its a very rare occurrence, so im wondering if the E30 mix might have had something to do with this. This was the one and only CEL or any other issue i had while doing this experiment.

[Peterkay]

The cat efficiency code you got is exactly what the description says, we see it from time to time. Stay off the blended mix as it is not suitable for our cars especially when tuned because it leans them out more. Without getting too technical stick to the 98 PULP. I only use BP98. It,s proven to be one of if not the best here in OZ. Wait for about 3 tank loads full of 98 and see if the error returns. If so the cat is RS depending on which bank the error code was for.

[_ISF]

13 hours ago, Peterkay said:

The cat efficiency code you got is exactly what the description says, we see it from time to time. Stay off the blended mix as it is not suitable for our cars especially when tuned because it leans them out more. Without getting too technical stick to the 98 PULP. I only use BP98. It,s proven to be one of if not the best here in OZ. Wait for about 3 tank loads full of 98 and see if the error returns. If so the cat is RS depending on which bank the error code was for.

The hi flow cats in my car are less than 1 year old and are lucky to have done 5,000km. I paid a small fortune for them as they are the stainless steel cats with metallic cores, not the cheaper ceramic ones. So they better not be buggered!!

I am well aware that the E20-30 blend will lean the Air/fuel ratio mixture out somewhat, but my car has always run a bit rich under load so i figured that leaning it out a wee bit wouldnt be an issue - certainly not for a short term test like this anyway. BP Ultimate 98 is what i always run in my cars and have done for years, it was just with this experiment i was blending BP98 with Caltex E85.

Anyway, im happy to end my experiment and move back to straight BP Ultimate 98.

[Peterkay]

Well those cats should be fine then.  You`ll find after 3 or so tank loads of the BP98 all should return to normal. The ECU has picked up the excessive blended fuel flowing out the exhaust and thought WTF ! ! ! !