Slide The Tail~

[Turbo]

Yep, according to my source at Toyota, Altezzas either came with traction control

OR LSD, not both. Too many issues trying to get the two systems to work together.

Trying to find more info at the moment....

Normally the traction control uses ABS system to control different wheel spinning....It has nothing to do with the LSD.....

LSD and traction control are totally different things.....

LSD allows the wheels spin at different speed in corners....

Traction control adjusts the wheel spinning speed if the computer senses the wheel is spinning faster than others to aviod lost of grip.....

Thats why we couldnt drift while the TRC is on....

Maybe I am wrong, but i will ask my teacher about this tomorrow morning~~

[Hoon]

Hmmm, OK Richard. I've got traction control anyway.

Aaron, how do you know you have an LSD in your Hoonmobile?

I know it is by the way it skids in gravel and on the wet roads, If it was an open non-LSD then only the wheel with the least load would spin.

toyota uses a Torsen LSD which is a TORque SENsing LSD. They are a very good thing, as they always spread the torque evenly between both wheels at all times, so even if you have one tyre on ice and the other on tarmac, both wheels will spin evenly.

If you jack the car up and spin the wheels you wouldnt think it is a LSD if you are used to the old clutch type LSD which uses friction to lock the two wheels and would make it really tight to turn.

There are a couple of different ways of getting the LSD to work - There are the options of a '1 way, 1.5 way, or 2 way'. What this means is that with a '1 way', you only get the LSD action when under power. A '1.5 way' has a little LSD action when on trailing throttle. (good for controlling the car when cornering) And finally the '2 way', which is the drift driver's dream, as the car will want to slide everywhere. ;) Not the fastest way to get around a corner, but it looks pretty cool and *BLEEP*loads of fun.

Torsen type diff

friction clutch type diff

[Turbo]

Hmmm, OK Richard.  I've got traction control anyway.

Aaron, how do you know you have an LSD in your Hoonmobile?

I know it is by the way it skids in gravel and on the wet roads, If it was an open non-LSD then only the wheel with the least load would spin.

toyota uses a Torsen LSD which is a TORque SENsing LSD. They are a very good thing, as they always spread the torque evenly between both wheels at all times, so even if you have one tyre on ice and the other on tarmac, both wheels will spin evenly.

If you jack the car up and spin the wheels you wouldnt think it is a LSD if you are used to the old clutch type LSD which uses friction to lock the two wheels and would make it really tight to turn.

There are a couple of different ways of getting the LSD to work - There are the options of a '1 way, 1.5 way, or 2 way'. What this means is that with a '1 way', you only get the LSD action when under power. A '1.5 way' has a little LSD action when on trailing throttle. (good for controlling the car when cornering) And finally the '2 way', which is the drift driver's dream, as the car will want to slide everywhere. ;) Not the fastest way to get around a corner, but it looks pretty cool and *BLEEP*loads of fun.

Torsen type diff

friction clutch type diff

Hoon~~~

Now i know i need a 2 way LSD........

Thanks....

[Squid]

Maybe on the later models, but my 98 definitely doesn't.

As I said I jacked it up locking for a LSD when I got it, you are right, a

torsen diff will spin like a open wheeler.. however if you try to spin both

wheels in the same direction you can't. As a torsen diff is based on a 'worm' gear.

ie. The Worm gear can turn the worm wheel, but the worm wheel cannot turn the worm gear.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm sure I've read somewhere that LSDs may have

been introduced on 02-later models?

Normally the traction control uses ABS system to control different wheel spinning....It has nothing to do with the LSD.....

LSD and traction control are totally different things.....

I disagree, both are designed to reduce slip at the wheels, one is just mechanical,

and the other 'electrical'.

[greeneyes]

OK, problems solved. We have Torsen LSDs. An LSD gives power to both wheels under acceleration, so it drives you out of the corner. Going into the corner with power off it allows the wheels to spin at different speeds, otherwise you get lots of understeer. My old clutch LSD does this, like a 1.5way Torsen.

Thanks Aaron.

I should go & try to spin both back wheels now...

Traction control releases the throtle also, via the computer. Horrible idea that should be banned!

[Squid]

Interestingly enough, I had an experimental 'play' in the wet this morning.

this time, window down, stereo off, and listening to the wheels, What I'd never

noticed before was the 'scratch scratch scratch' under throttle of the tires

'biting', much like you would have with a locked or LSD diff.

Emailing my mate at toyota as we speak... gonna jack the car up when I get

home, sure I checked for a torsen diff when I spun the wheels....

[greeneyes]

The Altezza-Girl will be up on the hoist tomorrow for a wheel alignment. Shall we pop the back off the diff and see..... :D :D

Today is the day to see what slides around traffic islands!! My 4WD Pulsar just understeers then rockets off down the road!

[Squid]

Grrr <_< for misinformation, just goes to show you can't believe everything you hear!

Return Email:

Your car has TRC and LSD standard, so I was incorrect.

Specs:

Model M/T F19TX

Differential Gear Ratio: 4.100

Ring Gear No. Teeth – 41

                      Size – 190mm

Drive Pinion No. Teeth – 10

Number of differential pinion – 8

Oil SAE90 API GL-5

p.s. I think this diff is also in a/t 3sge

[Turbo]

The Altezza-Girl will be up on the hoist tomorrow for a wheel alignment. Shall we pop the back off the diff and see..... :D :D

Today is the day to see what slides around traffic islands!! My 4WD Pulsar just understeers then rockets off down the road!

PS: Squid.

Hey, nobody can see the diff inside the final drive assembly.. unless you disassemble it and take the diff out. The diff is bolt on the crown wheel inside the final drive assembly.....

the only way we can make sure is taking the diff out of the housing.....

If you jack the car up and spin the wheel, the two wheel will spin in opp direction thats for sure..... no matter it is a normal diff or a LSD....... thats basically how the diff and LSD work when you jack the car up.....

the wheels will spin in same direction unless there is no diff or LSD connect both two drive shaft....

Above is according from my lecture book <automotive mechanics> Ed May volum1

[Turbo]

Grrr <_< for misinformation, just goes to show you can't believe everything you hear!

Return Email:

Your car has TRC and LSD standard, so I was incorrect.

Specs:

Model M/T F19TX

Differential Gear Ratio: 4.100

Ring Gear No. Teeth – 41

                      Size – 190mm

Drive Pinion No. Teeth – 10

Number of differential pinion – 8

Oil SAE90 API GL-5

p.s. I think this diff is also in a/t 3sge

Thanks Squid....

[Driftit]

Spot on Hoon.

I would never buy a rwd without an LSD!

Not with the number plate DRFT IT!!!

Hahaha.

Man I wish the RS200 didn't have that flat spot just before the VVTI starts working. This cause me to have to rev her up a bit more to get decent tourqe.

[greeneyes]

If you jack the car up and spin the wheel, the two wheel will spin in opp direction thats for sure..... no matter it is a normal diff or a LSD....... thats basically how the diff and LSD work when you jack the car up.....

the wheels will spin in same direction unless there is no diff or LSD connect both two drive shaft....

Above is according from my lecture book <automotive mechanics> Ed May volum1

So Laurence, if I jack up both rear wheels and turn one, does the other spin in the same direction or the opposite direction?

The lecture book seems to say both!

keith

[Turbo]

If you jack the car up and spin the wheel, the two wheel will spin in opp direction thats for sure..... no matter it is a normal diff or a LSD....... thats basically how the diff and LSD work when you jack the car up.....

the wheels will spin in same direction unless there is no diff or LSD connect both two drive shaft....

Above is according from my lecture book <automotive mechanics> Ed May volum1

So Laurence, if I jack up both rear wheels and turn one, does the other spin in the same direction or the opposite direction?

The lecture book seems to say both!

keith

keith, if you jack the car up and spin one wheel ,the other one should spin in opposite direction.

" The axles are no longer free to rotate independetly. With the differential case held stationary, any rotation of one wheel or axle will cause the other to rotate in the opposite direction at the same speed." This is from my book.

Maybe we should try to jack up the back of our car and let both rear wheels off the ground and spin one side only. See other side should spin in opposite direction.

Laurence.

[Turbo]

when our cars are in stationary, the crown wheel and the pinion are also stationary, the diff is bolt on the crown wheel so it is not rotating.. when both wheel are off ground, there is no load on them.

Two drive shafts connect to the diff with two side gear at their end. between two side gears the diff pinion connect with them. so when we spin one wheel the drive shaft will rotate the side gear in one direction and the side gear will drive the pinion to rotate. the pinion drive the other side gear to rotate in an opposite diretion. thats why the wheel on the other side will spin in an opposite direction.

differential.

diff rotating

[voiceinsideyou]

I'm just happy because my information was correct. *smile*

Huzzah!

[greeneyes]

Lol yes Chad!

Those links were pretty thorough Laurence. Everything was in there.

So now all we need is a carpark in the rain...

keith

[SSML]

All IS200s have Trac control.

IS 300 has VSC- Vihecle stability Control

But NOT all IS 200 have LSD (in AUS market)

Only LuxurySport model with Manual box comes with LSD standard!!

So all 4 AT IS200 and standard 6MT IS200 sold in AUS have no LSD unfortunately.

I have slided my IS a few times, either in wet or on grass surface.

Hard to do in dry tarmac.

[Turbo]

All IS200s have Trac control.

IS 300 has VSC- Vihecle stability Control

But NOT all IS 200 have LSD (in AUS market)

Only LuxurySport model with Manual box comes with LSD standard!!

So all 4 AT IS200 and standard 6MT IS200 sold in AUS have no LSD unfortunately.

I have slided my IS a few times, either in wet or on grass surface.

Hard to do in dry tarmac.

Hey bro. as I said , modern RWDs must have LSD....... no body using normal diff now..... Its too old, like the drum brake......

[?UESTLOVE]

His right. My car does not have an LSD, but I bought one for it.

[greeneyes]

So your new LSD will now light up both rear wheels in the wet, and the old Torsen didn't? What is the difference ?uestlove?

[Driftit]

Im not too sure how much you guys are into Drift. But I find with the Torsen LSD it causes a few problems linking corners. Found that out last night.

When you let go of the throttle then stab at it again it is like it has some hesitation to work!

E.g. First corner power on. Linking to second oporsite corner power off till car comes back round then power on for corner itself.

As soon as you power off the LSD does not function fully. Im guessing this has something to do with there being no tourqe at that stage.

Can be dangerous. I would stick to your powerslides unless you purchase a better LSD.

[greeneyes]

Ah! That's what I was wondering! and if you go into a corner tight and slow, with lots of body roll and nail it, then the inside wheel will light up and no torque will get transferred to the outside wheel.

Other than then, I assume it will help traction by equalising the torque.

keith