News - 2009 Price Rises And New Sport Variant

[Sapphire Cam]

Hello all,

I was in my Lexus dealership on the weekend to have a look at the IS-F and the IS250 update. A sales exec was telling me that the is250 will rise by $4,000 from Jan 1 2009, and the new RX when it arrives next year will increase by about 8k. These are relatively new announcements made by Lexus, in response to changes in the overall automotive market.

Apparently it is a brand/model protection measure - to keep Lexus at the upper end of the market and in a sense making the same profit from selling less vehicles?! I thought all manufacturers want as many of their cars on the road as possible! One positive is the benefit this will have on the value of second hand is250s in the years ahead.

Secondly Lexus have apparently bought plans forward for the re-release of the is250 to late 2010, not 2012 - as initially proposed.

Another bit of news the dealer gave me was that whilst the Sports variant is currently dead in the latest is250 range, it may be re-released as per the 'Sports Concept' or 'IS-F lite' as shown at the Sydney Motor Show, around the same time as the is250-C in mid 2009.

Has anyone else heard / read this news? - As I said, it is relatively new news, as I was surprised that the sales executive disclosed this to me without having read anything.

[kinjiru]

Thanks for the heads up Sapphire. Not suprised by the price increase given how far the AUD has fallen compared to YEN.

[pygothian]

Not too happy if they are changing the model in 2010 instead of 2012. *BLEEP*s me how they always seem to bull*BLEEP* about this info. Been caught out with BMW once, and my mercedes after having it for 18months suddenly a new model appears after being promised it wasnt due for a makeover in 5 years.

Now it seems lexus have jumped on that too to make a quick sale knowing full well the model will be obsolete in the near future.

[FrankyX]

The current shape has been out since late 2005, meaning 5 year life span to 2010. That's really not too bad and average life span of any model, any longer and it could get stale.

[ilv1004s]

*BLEEP* the is250 sports IS concept thing

bring the IS250

this is how it should be

IS250 , IS350 stuff the sports lux and all that crap

4-5 years is average for a model

look at mx5's 300zx etc way more than 4-5 years lol

[FrankyX]

MX5, hence my call for getting stale if it stays around too long. Way past its use by date.

[Bluey]

*BLEEP* the is250 sports IS concept thing

bring the IS250

this is how it should be

IS250 , IS350 stuff the sports lux and all that crap

4-5 years is average for a model

look at mx5's 300zx etc way more than 4-5 years lol

ilv, take it easy man.

I'm sure Lexus have a better handle on their target market than we the mere owners.

I too would love the 350, but I also love my IS250 Sports Lux for all it offers, others prefer the prestige, and we now have the choice of ISF.

If the IS wasn't a popular model they wouldn't bother with all the new variants, let alone doing a facelift.

Just enjoy what your driving 'cause you love it, then worry about what you'll drive next when the time comes.

MMmmmm..... IS350 :P

[ilv1004s]

lol i aint mad

i recon it's just stupid how lexus aus doesnt bring in the is350

look at the 335 variants.. they are selling real well

i see more of them on the road now days...

pitty IS350 would have been a real good run against the 335..

[IronFist]

So there's a $4K price rise in the near year for the IS250....most probably due to the global economic downturn and a weaker AUS$.

Good thing I got my car before all this came about.

Yeah it's a bit of a shame Lexus Australia didn't bring out the IS350 or the IS250 AWD variant - I would've gave it consideration.

[chappy]

lol i aint mad

i recon it's just stupid how lexus aus doesnt bring in the is350

look at the 335 variants.. they are selling real well

i see more of them on the road now days...

pitty IS350 would have been a real good run against the 335..

Good remarks that's exactly what i said to lexus no 350 because the price would be $110000 plus which they said would upset gs300 sales.

Their is no point spending a fortune trading my 05 250 sports for another 250 you want to step up not across

Tested the is-f tempting but too skidish on our horrid roads and $100000 change over price no thanks

Off to audi and bmw

Cut things short the a5 is front wheel drive no thanks

Don't like the 4 door 335 sedan

Fell in love with bmw 335 m-sport coupe 19''wheels

Traded my lexus in for brand new 335m-sport for $115000 on the road with all the options i want.

In the bmw parking area when i was their 3 is250s were traded in on 335s

No wonder lexus is down 64%

Not enough engine choices full stop.

Still love lexus as my sister has a RX350

But no model to upgrade $60000 gap between 250 and is-f is barmy

[ilv1004s]

eactly..

upset GS300 sales thats a load of bull

GS300 is a way bigger car than the is250

the two cannot be compared i think thats just a poor excuse

upset the gs300 sales wat a joke

people who want a big family car will buy the gs

people who want a bit of up and go with 4 doors will get the is350

[Bluey]

eactly..

upset GS300 sales thats a load of bull

GS300 is a way bigger car than the is250

the two cannot be compared i think thats just a poor excuse

upset the gs300 sales wat a joke

people who want a big family car will buy the gs

people who want a bit of up and go with 4 doors will get the is350

Absolutely, I agree.

Bring on the 350 in the IS, bugger the rest.

The IS is the best looking car in the Lexus range. May not suit everyone, but definately the best looking, IMO.

[Sapphire Cam]

Agree with Chappy - there is too much of a step up, from the 2.5L (at $56-79k) to the 5.0L ($129k)- there should be a 90-100k variant available in the IS range, and surely that is where the is350 steps in.

I understand the is350 can't come to Australia due to emissions standards/regulations. I still think that is a lame excuse by Lexus Oz - because when I was in LA late last year, there were is350's everywhere, and I believe Californian emissions standards are far more stringent than Australia's (in fact you could argue they are some of the world's most stringent).

If, as the sales executive explained to me, that Lexus is now less concerned about sales volume for the IS range, then bring the damn 350 down under and price it at 95!!

Chappy, (well done - I love the 2-dr 335 too) at least Lexus can feel comfortable that the is250's aren't being traded in for the stock standard 320/323, which in my eyes are 'Exhibit A' in illustrating how someone would buy a car purely based on the badge. They are such a disappointment (after having a play around with one a few weeks back).

[pygothian]

Yeah...i had always liked the look of the new shape BMW, but after driving one, and finding that the standard car has no bells or whistles - it was extremely disappointing. To option the BMW 325i as close as I could to the IS250 SL, it would cost more than buying an M3. BMW options are way overpriced, and i believe should be standard.

Thats why I went with mercedes for my 1st car - at least it performed better on the road, and had more things standard. Then I splashed out and went with the AMG coz it looks like a nice sedan...and noone knows what it can really do when you put your foot down. (unless they are car people)

[Turbo4]

BMW wont drop their prices until people like us stop buying their cars. Audi, Merc, and BMW massively overcharge in this market simply because they CAN!

[Sapphire Cam]

Turbo4 - you're right. They charge that because they can. The stock-standard 3-series - the off the shelf 320i is a vastly inferior product to the is250, the A4 and C-class, yet the badge keeps people buying it and sucking people in. (It sucked me in - to the dealership at least for a test drive a couple of years back - but that's where it quickly ended). In particular the majority of 4-cyl 320i's on the road are in fact executive fleet or lease vehicles, which 'inflate' the actual ownership figures of a standard 3-series.

You just have to look at our car park here at work (all the execs are issued with the stock standard 320i) - Ive had 3 of them come up and chat about the is250 with me at the coffee machine and wish theyd got one instead, but Lexus are never popular with executive fleets for some reason - maybe they're not into volume discounts!)

I've also looked at and driven the new A4 (so what!? - I have no idea what all the hype is about - unless its the infinite options list perhaps, the choppy ride and FWD dynamics, or the turbo lag in the 1.8T), Audi in my opinion are a very overpriced product, and the C-class which is a lovely vehicle, but again not until you fork out 10k extra for stuff that should be standard on a vehicle like that (like 'real leather' for Gods sake!).

Three and half years on, the is250 is still the best value all-round package on the market. Sorry if Im sounding like a salesman - I dont mean to be!

[ilv1004s]

turbo4?

r u pete?? on evo oz??

[Rap03]

First time back to the forum in a while, so have missed a lot of going ons.

Just looked at the UK web-site and the 2009 model has a few updates in the make over.

Also, they hav changed the lineup classifications. And, one of the major things is that their prices have DROPPED!

I don't think the British pound has gone up against the Yen. I think it has fallen as well, so, should we see a price drop in Oz..........

One other thing that I see mentioned in here, if they brought the 350 to Australia, the price would be..........

Well, we all know that basically, if you have a 350 motor or a 250 motor, it would be 2 tenths of buggar all in extra cost to produce, so why are we always seeing HUGH different in pricing. Yes, the 350 might have some other features over the 250, but still, these luxury car makers are just ripping us all off.

How often we see the same features ending up in the low end cars (Yaris for one with push button start) and they don't cost an extra.

Unfortunately, they have us by the short and curlies, and if we want one the luxury cars (no matter which brand), they make us pay for it, even though the cost of producing those cars is not a great deal more than your every day family commuter.

[Sapphire Cam]

Rap 03 - My initial tip-off was a little off the mark. In the end prices for the IS250 range have gone up about $2500 here but changes to the LCT etc. mean the on-road costs are about $4k more in Australia. So I guess my mail wasn't that bad. Strange to hear how UK prices have dropped when the rear-end has fallen out of the Pound Sterling. Mind you, Lexus has an even harder time breaking into the UK market than here in Oz - so perhaps Lexus senses a shift over there. They have the 220d option over there - which will help sales.

Usually the luxury models are where companies recoup their R&D costs and then later introduce features on low-end models (I reckon in 5 years you'll see heated seats and full keyless entry as standard kit on most $30-40k sedans). Also the premium paid on luxury vehicles essentially helps subsidise other vehicles in the companies range. A classic case in point is the Audi A4, which after you add options etc. IMO is about $15k-20k overpriced for a vehicle with inferior performance (a FWD 4 cyl) to a Lexus, BMW or Merc. . This mark-up surely must help VW keep their Passats, Jettas and Golfs competitively priced here in Australia. I think its no coincidence that as the VW range has become more competitively priced over the past 5 years, the Audi range has got less so (eg. the new A3 Sportback with some stock-standard options and an engine choice that will actually get you moving is now over 50k.)

[last1]

This mark-up surely must help VW keep their Passats, Jettas and Golfs competitively priced here in Australia. I think its no coincidence that as the VW range has become more competitively priced over the past 5 years, the Audi range has got less so

Sorry Sapphire Cam, I just can't imagine that the Golf, one of the 3 most produced cars in the world, is getting subsidesed by Audi sales. Logic would suggest if anything, it would be the other way round. As for a company producing hundreds of thousands of VWs which are not profitable, and then pumping up the price of Audis (making them less competitive and selling less in turn) to cover the shortfall just does not make business/ecconomic sense at all. Who would bother investing billions of dollars into a venture and be happy for no returns? Tell me that they subsidise the Veyron with Audi/VW money in order to hold onto the mantle of producing the fastest road car in the world (in turn giving the company better engineering credibility and marketing - "my VW is made by the same company that produce the worlds best sports car!") and I'll buy into that, but not a Passat! Last time I checked, if a car wasn't making money it was changed so that it would - or dropped from the line up.

[Sapphire Cam]

last1 - Dont many automotive companies operate geographically - essentially as franchisees of the parent company? I thought that is how they operate - big brother back in Europe but some autonomy in their home country. I was suggesting that Audi/VW Australia would operate semi-independently and have a fair bit of input into pricing and options. I wasn't suggesting that sales of an A3 would LITERALLY subsidise the Golf (agree with you - doesnt make sense for a mega-company with enormous volumes of sales), but if Audi/VW Australia need to get $10K profit when selling 1x A3 and 1x Golf for example, they'll price the A3 at 50 and the Golf at 30, when (and the motoring journalists agree) the A3 has really been a Golf that is built in Germany instead of Sth Africa (as in the Golf) with better trim and finish for a significant premium (of course there is a little more to it than that - Im simplifying my case! :) ). Therefore the profit on a Golf in Australia might only be a few grand, whilst the profit on an A3 might be 6-8k. So the Golf provides the volume for VW/Audi, the A3 provides the company with the profit.

Anyway just throwing an example up there as to why the lower-end Audis seem overpriced IN MY OPINION.

[last1]

Cam, I think I follow what you're thinking.

The Golf competes with numerous other cars in one of the most competitive segments of the market, also a very price sensitive category (and the lower the price - the more units they sell) and given the much, much, much, much, much larger volume of sales (vs the A3) the small profit on each car add up to deliver a very healty revenue stream. It also comes down to return as a percentage of investment. If I was to open a car yard tomorrow and was contracted to stock both Golfs and A3s, and knowing I could sell a Golf every single day for a $3000 return vs an A3 which could only sell at a rate of one car every 3rd day for $3000 return, I know which car I'd be investing more of money in!!!! Also, seeing A3s are not in a competitive/price sensitive category (when comparing to the Golf's market), I would be tempted to bump up the price of the A3 even higher (say an additional $5000) and only sell one every 6 days instead of 3. ($8000 profit every 6 days vs $3000 every 3 days) This is the type of math these guys have to deal with. (and then a prospective buyer may ask "why is the A3 so expensive?"). Bottom line, if you've got a car in a high sales volume category - price it low and watch it go! If you've got a car in a low sales volume category, you may have to maintain a higher price, even if you may risk selling less, in order to get a better return on investment. I hope this makes some sort of sense. Every business is only there for one reason - profit! They do the math accordingly. If VW could make a better overall return by increasing their prices - I GUARANTEE YOU - they would :)

*disclaimer - the volume figures and profit figures quoted above are for illustrative purposes only.

The fact that the A3 may only be a glorified Golf does not reflect the fact that the A3 may still be significantly more expensive to build (given different components, labour costs, transportation costs etc. etc.) and the need to recover tooling costs associated with setting up in Germany, and appropriating those tooling costs over a smaller volume of sales. etc. etc. (explains part of the higher price)

The regional distributer (franchisee) then has the same decision to make as per the dealership illustration I've drawn above.

Ultimatley - you're right. The Golf delivers far superiour value for money (purchase price vs build cost). But it doesn't carry the Audi badge. Now its it's your decision which one to buy. The Camry or the IS 250? (I'm now going to duck for cover)

[Sapphire Cam]

Geez - talk about stirring up a hornets nest on an is250 forum loosely referring to it as a Camry!! But I can have a chuckle - Im sure we all can. The worst thing Lexus did was badge a tarted up Camry as the ES300 - which then got people (wrongly) thinking that the smaller Lexus' are re-badged Camrys!! Still the intellectual motoring heads know otherwise. Im not sure there is any Camry in the 250. I know the start button is shared across Toyota and the indicator stalk and window switches (prior to the update) come from the Prado, but I think that's it. I could be wrong, but the 250 I believed was marketed in industry circles as the first true independently designed and built Lexus. Essentially, the child finally moving out of home, and not having to do what its parents told it to do.

You raise a good point re. the build quality with the A3/Golf. The A3 is still built in Deutschland whereas the Golf is now Sth. African, and whilst people say that it shouldn't matter where the vehicle is built - truth is, it does! All comes down to worker attitude. In Germany and Japan, employees attitude to quality control is completely different to the workforce in Sth Africa. If a 'widget' doesnt quite fit perfectly into the 'whatset' then the employee will alert management. In Sth Africa, generally the workforce dont care. (I have worked over there and have seen it first hand). And as a result, the A3 is better put together, and as a result more reliable (just ask my wife - ended up desperately getting rid of her '03 Golf). Also one of the reasons why the reliability of the BMW 3-series has plummeted since the 4-cyl variants started to be built in the Rainbow Nation.

[last1]

Sorry Cam,

I picked the Camry/IS 250 combination as a bit of a laugh really! My post had become too long winded.

Sorry to hear about the wife's Golf. Mine drives a Passat.