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Hi guys,

I've read a few reviews online where they rank the IS350 better than the F30 335i, just wondering if anyone here has cross compared the two and what your thoughts were about the pros/cons of each?

I wanted a 335i before but now I'm not sure lol.

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very good review considering these guys are/were lexus bashers

but for pros and cons

pretty much same as before

335 more tuneing abilitiy

but lexus has definately stepped up the game and starting to take over the germans play ground

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Not many 335i buyers "tune" them.

There's more to think about than that.

Higher running costs on the BMW. Insurance & service.

The level of service is no where near as good.

No free loan cars at BMW even though they charge more for servicing.

BMW only 3 year warranty v Lexus 4 year

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Not many 335i buyers "tune" them.

There's more to think about than that.

Higher running costs on the BMW. Insurance & service.

The level of service is no where near as good.

No free loan cars at BMW even though they charge more for servicing.

BMW only 3 year warranty v Lexus 4 year

Incorrect. I used to own E93 325i always had replacement car free of charge when servicing.

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No free loan cars at BMW even though they charge more for servicing.

Incorrect. I used to own E93 325i always had replacement car free of charge when servicing.

A "$15 administrative charge" applies at this dealership:

http://www.bmwsydney.com.au/com/en/owners/bmw_service/faq.html#nr05

NSW drive-away pricing:

Lexus IS 350 F Sport, no options: $81,108

BMW 335i M Sport optioned to Lexus F Sport specification: $117,294

Difference: $36,186

It might be harder to tune, but I think you could do a lot with a spare $36,000 to make an IS 350 leave a stock 335i in its dust ... if that's what you're really into.

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"but lexus has definitely stepped up the game and starting to take over the germans play ground"

I don't see it. The IS has always lagged behind by a generation on the 3 series in terms of handling, and Lexus completely botched up their opportunity to catch up with the current 3IS platform being effectively a cosmetic update (excluding the IS300h).

The 335 will give you a bigger smile on the road, but not at service time...

if you're looking at pure power vs cost the local VE Commondore HSV models will kill both the IS350 and the 335 (307 kW vs 233 on the IS350 and 225 on the 335), and looks like an IS350 from the front as well. The Chrysler SRT8 is another power vs cost option (347kW), at $56k for the base model and $66k for the one with the fruit. Sure, it can't go around corners but there are plenty of handling upgrades available (and if you're looking for great handling, you shouldn't be looking at an IS).

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"but lexus has definitely stepped up the game and starting to take over the germans play ground"

I don't see it. The IS has always lagged behind by a generation on the 3 series in terms of handling, and Lexus completely botched up their opportunity to catch up with the current 3IS platform being effectively a cosmetic update (excluding the IS300h).

The 335 will give you a bigger smile on the road, but not at service time...

if you're looking at pure power vs cost the local VE Commondore HSV models will kill both the IS350 and the 335 (307 kW vs 233 on the IS350 and 225 on the 335), and looks like an IS350 from the front as well. The Chrysler SRT8 is another power vs cost option (347kW), at $56k for the base model and $66k for the one with the fruit. Sure, it can't go around corners but there are plenty of handling upgrades available (and if you're looking for great handling, you shouldn't be looking at an IS).

cosmetic upgrade?

where are you getting all this info from

the cars new from the ground up

all suspension geometry and chassis layout has been changed

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New from the ground up - seriously ? Same outdated, fuel-heavy (worst in class) engine, they FINALLY add the 8-speed (should have been introduced before 2012 - and it's still not available on the IS250!), the suspension *did* get updated (after a late refresh on the 2IS) but is still rated independently as sub-par compared to the BMW.

The 3IS is 3 years too late.

Lexus - The pursuit of perfection good enough.

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I wouldn't call the 3is just a cosmetic upgrade, the chassis and sussy alone are a huge improvement over the 2is. push a 2is 350 f-sport then do the same for a 3is f-sport, its night day.

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I'm ex 335I owner.

If you like driving, handling and turbo power go the BM at the expense of much higher maintenance, oil leaks etc...

I prefer the BMW's handling, ZF gearbox because the converter is always locked, and the turbo power.

On paper the is350 has more power and should be at least as quick but in reality it is slower, BM goes around corners a little more neutral than IS.

The H/light washers look stuppid on the IS.

On the plus side much cheper with many more features some you can't even get as an option on the German car ( well not German built, SA built).

The leather is much better on the Jap car unless you option up the BM, fit and finish better on the Jap, service way better on the Jap.

Over 4-5 years ownership Lexus will cost much less but you don't have the propeller on the grill.

Why not go to your local BM dealer and ask them to give one for a long test and do the same with the Lexus, You can be the judge.

If fuel consumption is an issue buy the BM, lexus uses at least 10 maybe 15% more fuel..

Both good cars , you will be happy with either.

Let us know what you end up with.

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New from the ground up - seriously ? Same outdated, fuel-heavy (worst in class) engine, they FINALLY add the 8-speed (should have been introduced before 2012 - and it's still not available on the IS250!), the suspension *did* get updated (after a late refresh on the 2IS) but is still rated independently as sub-par compared to the BMW.

The 3IS is 3 years too late.

Lexus - The pursuit of perfection good enough.

oh right so going by yout thought process

the new 3 serise is just a cosmetic update too?

it carries the same engine to the previous e90s as well

with an addition of few smaller forced induction 4cylinder motors

Edited by ilv1004s
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have

New from the ground up - seriously ? Same outdated, fuel-heavy (worst in class) engine, they FINALLY add the 8-speed (should have been introduced before 2012 - and it's still not available on the IS250!), the suspension *did* get updated (after a late refresh on the 2IS) but is still rated independently as sub-par compared to the BMW.

The 3IS is 3 years too late.

Lexus - The pursuit of perfection good enough.

the 3IS 3 years late?.. It looks 3 Years Ahead of its time!

the BMW interior on the other hand looks like its from 2003!:

the Bmw speedometers look more than 3 years late when compared to those on the Lexus, - you have to see it IRL,- super cool! just like the LFA's!

This comparison used a 3 series BMW:

Capture3.jpg

The BMW speedometer :

Capture2.jpg

3IS:

Capture1.jpg

3IS F Sport Speedometer..

Capture.jpg

and on FUEL CONSUMPTION, notice the BMW claims 6.0L/100km but on test gets 10.5L/100km ... hmmm

Audi A4 1.8 TFSI Sport Edition

Price: $59,900
Engine: 1.8 litre 4-cyl turbo petrol
Power: 125kW at 3800-6200rpm
Torque: 320Nm at 1400-3700rpm
Transmission: CVT
0-100km/h: 8.3 seconds
Fuel consumption: 5.8L/100km claimed (10.5L/100km on test)
CO2 emissions: 134g/km

BMW 320i Sport Line

Price: $61,725
Engine: 2.0-litre 4-cyl turbo petrol
Power: 135kW at 5000rpm
Torque: 270Nm at 1250-4500rpm
Transmission: 8-sp automatic
0-100km/h: 7.3 seconds
Fuel consumption: 6.0L/100km claimed (10.2L/100km on test)
CO2 emissions: 138-141g/km

Lexus IS250 F Sport

Price: $64,900
Engine: 2.5-litre 6-cyl petrol
Power: 153kW at 6400rpm
Torque: 252Nm at 4800rpm
Transmission: 6-sp automatic
0-100km/h: 8.1 seconds
Fuel consumption: 9.2L/100km claimed (12.5L/100km on test)
CO2 emissions: 213g/km

Mercedes-Benz C200 BlueEfficiency

Price: $59,900
Engine: 1.8-litre 4-cyl turbo petrol
Power: 135kW at 5250rpm
Torque: 270Nm at 1800-4600rpm
Transmission: 7-sp automatic
0-100km/h: 7.8 seconds
Fuel consumption: 6.8L/100km claimed (11.4L/100km on test)
CO2 emissions: 158g/km

and here are some interesting comments from that review : (im just Quoting them :)).

"Let's see the IS250 was the heaviest vehicle in the test with the longest gearing and the least torque.
Yet
It was only 0.3 seconds slower than the C200 and quicker than the A4. Despite being heavier, less torque and longer gearing..
The only reason the 320i is fast is due to its extremely short gearing and its relatively light kerb weight.
Besides there is much more to it than the 0-100 manufacturer 'claims' which are no always very accurate.
Besides I can't remember the last review I've read in the World Wide Web that praised the C-class for dynamics, steering etc.."

"Yeah right.The only thing the other 3 engines have over the IS250 is just a turbocharger.
Take that out and they'll perform like slugs.
Mercedes, Audi, BMW uses to make N/A but they needed to go F/I to compete with the Japanese."

"All these 3 Germans cars here with sub 2 litre engines consumed a much higher amount of fuel compared with their claimed consumption figures.
The Lexus was close to sticker claims.. Besides stop/start will affect reliability. Starting engine needs more fuel and you put more wear on the starter motor, alternator and battery."

http://www.caradvice.com.au/246682/compact-luxury-comparison-audi-a4-v-bmw-3-series-v-lexus-is-v-mercedes-benz-c-class/

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New from the ground up - seriously ? Same outdated, fuel-heavy (worst in class) engine, they FINALLY add the 8-speed (should have been introduced before 2012 - and it's still not available on the IS250!), the suspension *did* get updated (after a late refresh on the 2IS) but is still rated independently as sub-par compared to the BMW.

The 3IS is 3 years too late.

Lexus - The pursuit of perfection good enough.

The OP was querying the merits of the IS 350, so I'll exclude the rest of the IS line in my response.

Some will prefer the more linear torque curve of a turbo, but the main issue that everybody seems to have with the IS 350's engine is its fuel economy. Based on real-world driving, the IS 350 would consume $1500 more fuel over 5 years than a 335i (98-octane fuel in today's money, at 15,000 km/year). But given the chasm of pricing between Lexus and the Germans, one has to remember: fuel consumption issues should be regarded as practically irrelevant in this segment.

Most reviews will focus on the F Sport version of the IS 350. This includes the adaptive suspension that is also found on the Australian Sports Luxury variant. I'm not sure as to which "independent rating" you're referring, but let's look at all the notable independent reviews ...

Road & Track: "The [bMW's] balance is still there. The chassis still makes you look like a genius ..."

'The IS has ... the feel and responses of a less heavily styled car ... The Infiniti has gadgets to "help" you, the BMW has motor and hereditary manners, and the Caddy is a milled ingot of doubly refined handling. But the Lexus puts it all together better and lets you enjoy it more, for less money—even optioned to the gills—than anything else here.' (Winner: IS 350 d 335i and others)

Motor Trend: "Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed ... Its ride was the softest of the group. The Lexus IS 350 was something of a mixed bag ... This car's ride and handling tradeoff, more than the BMW's ... was compromised by the addition of AWD." (Winner: 335i xDrive d IS 350 AWD and others)

Car and Driver: "... the M Sport package fails to rectify our complaints about the F30 chassis. There’s more movement from both front and rear axles than expected, more than its predecessor exhibited and, notably, more than either the ATS or the IS displays. Even with the optional suspension, body control falters. Bumps that the Lexus absorbs and the Cadillac shrugs off with a single succinct compression and rebound make the BMW pitch and roll and fight to stay on-line. Compared with the other two cars here, the BMW feels immense and slow-witted."

"The Lexus is utterly imperturbable. Bumps that send other cars skittering off-line or scrambling to maintain their course are absorbed and dispatched, but not kept completely hidden from the driver. " (Winner: IS 350 F Sport d 335i M Sport)

Torque News: IS 350 d 335i. No explicit mention of suspension but - like other reviews have noted - other factors have spoiled the BMW's handling. In Torque News' case, it was turbo lag and the "stability control nanny" coming on "too strong, too fast".

Everyday Driver: IS 350 F Sport d 335i (series of videos)

Wheels Magazine: I think you've probably all read this article by now. IS 350 F Sport d 335i

Note that I'm only pointing out the suspension comparisons. Were I to focus on what really matters - the handling of the vehicle, which also takes steering response and feel into consideration - the results swing even more to the IS' favour.

Sure, the 3IS was late, and it carries over the engines from the previous model. As you say, "the IS has always lagged behind by a generation on the 3 series in terms of handling" ... until the 3IS. Somehow, BMW dropped the ball by replacing its venerable hydraulic steering with immature electric steering, with the result that the new IS 350 beats the current-model 335i sedan in almost every aspect. The question is, will it be better than the next model 335i, which is probably not too far away? Based on the 4-series coupe reviews - some criticising the sports suspension as "too firm" and the steering described as "a little dull" and "still isn't there, yet" - the 3IS could still be as regarded as the better driver's car in years to come.

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  • 3 months later...

I have found that 335 M sport way too bumpy for me, low profile 19"tyre+Run flat,what a combination, and also the seat is as hard as a rock,.IS350F is tuned on the firm side but you will never feel uncomfortable, the leather quality is very good (semi-aniline) and ventilated seats are very useful

Handling: BMW is still the winner, steering feels more precise, but IS350 is not bad at all, say if porsche 911 would score a 10, then I'd give 335i 9/10, toyota 86 8.5/10, Mercedes C coupe with AMG pack 8 and IS350F 8

Powertrain: 335i wins for output especially power on wheel (dyno would tell), but IS350 has more than enough power for me and I like the smooth ride without turbo, I would give 335i a 10 and IS350 9.5

Reliability: Everyone could tell

Cost of the ownership: IS350F+ep2 is the best value for $80K while 335 would cost me over $115K (after negociation, both fully loaded with every possible options),

Technology:BMW wins, I like the HUD, elec tail gates, surrounding view camera, and I-drive is much easier to use.

Style: IS350 is not that bad when you actually see it and F30 is not as good looking as E90,but I still prefer BMW for the exterior. Lexus wins the interior, especially for the IFA instrument really stands out however I have to point out that I'm disappointed about the quality of cheap plastics and the aluminium materials used in dashboard and door panels.

Let's put in this way, if ASX reaches 20000, I would buy a Merc S400 for long trip cruise and 335i for short drives (no more than 30 minutes and only by myself), but if I have only $70-80K budget, IS350F is the one to go, it surely wins the battle against 328i which is in the same price range

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