Can Ethanol-Mixed 95 Octane Fuel Be Used For Is250?

[Subby]

Could you more experienced Lexus owners please clarify this point for me?

I've got conflicting advice from the people at the dealer's. The salesman said that you could use ethanol-mixed 95 octane fuel quite safely, while the service bloke advised against this.

Haven't noticed any major difference in the engine behaviour between United's 95 Octane ethanol-mixed vs Shell's 95 Octane....however, I think I was getting better mileage with United compared to Shell.

Haven't tried 98 Octane - the price differential seems significant.

Would love to hear what your experience has been.

Thanks

Subby

(IS250 Sports Luxury - 2007)

[Aircon]

Could you more experienced Lexus owners please clarify this point for me?

I've got conflicting advice from the people at the dealer's. The salesman said that you could use ethanol-mixed 95 octane fuel quite safely, while the service bloke advised against this.

Haven't noticed any major difference in the engine behaviour between United's 95 Octane ethanol-mixed vs Shell's 95 Octane....however, I think I was getting better mileage with United compared to Shell.

Haven't tried 98 Octane - the price differential seems significant.

Would love to hear what your experience has been.

Thanks

Subby

(IS250 Sports Luxury - 2007)

You can certainly use it without problems. It says so quite specifically in the usual places on the net....I've used it and found no difference in performance or fuel consumption. (fuel consumpion on freeway..never tested urban..too many variables)

[FrankyX]

Not sure on the 07 models, I know that from O8 models they have stated on the fuel lid that Ethanol fuel is suitable. However, personally I would not recommend it.

Also, I wasn't even aware they had 95 ethanol. For best performance and fuel economy use any premium fuel. I have not been using anything less than 98 Octane.

[Lexus Nerd]

E10 is no problem with IS250s of any manufacturing year:

http://www.lexus.com.au/service/fuel/

Assuming all other factors - such as overall fuel quality or octane rating - are equal, E10 fuel is less value for money. You'll use about 5% more fuel, which more than negates the 3c/L discount.

[dis-lex-sic]

You'll use about 5% more fuel

How do you calculate this pecentage? Your use of the word "about" suggests a guess.

Taking in to consideration variables such as type of driving, driver behaviour & even climate I think your 5% v 3 cents a litre is in no way accurate.

5% v 3%??? I get more than a 2% difference between my tanks of petrol depending on my type of driving.

E10 works fine. It has an octane rating of between 94-96. The octane difference to 98 is in pecentage terms less than the increase in price. Thats not a guess.

[Iggy]

The discount is more that 3c/lt, usually normal premium 95 octane fuel is 10-15 cents more that 91 oct and the United's 95 ethanol mix is at least 3 cents less than the 91 oct fuel, so it works out to be at least 13cents saving. looking about $175 per year, is it worth it?

[Lexus Nerd]

You'll use about 5% more fuel

How do you calculate this pecentage? Your use of the word "about" suggests a guess.

Taking in to consideration variables such as type of driving, driver behaviour & even climate I think your 5% v 3 cents a litre is in no way accurate.

5% v 3%??? I get more than a 2% difference between my tanks of petrol depending on my type of driving.

E10 works fine. It has an octane rating of between 94-96. The octane difference to 98 is in pecentage terms less than the increase in price. Thats not a guess.

Most E10 fuels are 91 octane. But Subby points out that United's E10 fuel is 95 octane, and Iggy notes that it represents "at least 13 cents' saving [per litre]", rather than the typical 3c/L discount one finds for most 91-octane E10 fuels. Now I agree that's good value! In fact, I'll be sure to fill up at United myself next time. I hope that that blend will remain in the market, at that price point, for years to come ... I note that Shell is phasing out its 94-octane E10 in NSW, to offer a 91-octane product with no change in price.

So, with that, I won't bore readers with my calculations of how the average driver (driving a car suited for 91 RON, and not visiting United) is about 2% (sorry ... precisely 2.2%) worse off using E10.

[Aircon]

Most E10 fuels are 91 octane. But Subby points out that United's E10 fuel is 95 octane, and Iggy notes that it represents "at least 13 cents' saving [per litre]", rather than the typical 3c/L discount one finds for most 91-octane E10 fuels. Now I agree that's good value! In fact, I'll be sure to fill up at United myself next time. I hope that that blend will remain in the market, at that price point, for years to come ... I note that Shell is phasing out its 94-octane E10 in NSW, to offer a 91-octane product with no change in price.

So, with that, I won't bore readers with my calculations of how the average driver (driving a car suited for 91 RON, and not visiting United) is about 2% (sorry ... precisely 2.2%) worse off using E10.

Maybe things are different in other states. Clearly if E10 becomes 91 octane (in Melbourne shell E10 is 94 octane), then the goal posts change. HOWEVER, as it is, we're getting the correct octane rating out of E10 at a savings of 13 cents per litre over the 95 octane fuel and even though some note a loss in efficiency, my tests with freeway driving showed totally NO difference.

Maybe the best reason for not boring us with your calculations is because they're wrong and/or they don't apply to our cars which require 95 octane fuel, not 91.

[ilv1004s]

this has been discussed before

i will not run E10 in my car wat so ever

tried both fuel

and most of you guys whos been on here long enough will know the results

[Subby]

Firstly, thanks to everyone for their comments and feedback. In particular, Lexus Nerd - thanks for the link http://www.lexus.com.au/service/fuel/. That has put my mind at ease once and for all on the E10 issue.

The following are my conclusions from the posts so far:

It's fine to use E10 95 Octane fuel - the E10 and 95 Octane are BOTH important.

Fuel consumption is affected more by driving style and conditions than by the E10 addition.

In Melbourne, United's E10 95 Octane fuel is cheaper than any other brand of 91 Octane ULP, let alone other 95 Octane fuel (with or without discount fuel vouchers) .... so it makes good sense to use it if there is an outlet handy.

Thanks again and great to be part of this forum

Avafunday

Subby

[LEX51S]

http://au.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9218

[illusivedreams]

http://au.lexusowner...?showtopic=9218

At the begining of E10 Ethanol fuels the Government spread all this bull*BLEEP* about how bad the ETHANOl is for your engine,

They went as far as investigating Petrol station. What a *BLEEP*ing crosh of *BLEEP*. I love the Propaganda in Australia.

You know why?

THey didnt tax it...

Dont worry it got fixed. Gets taxed all good now. AND guess what the government verdict is now. YEAH sustainable and great go for it.

In my Ford I consistantly and sytamatically get more Miles on E10 fuels.

In my lexus it made almost no differnce (.05%)

At 16cents more for premium it makes no sence. Really it does not you have to get 12%+ better fuel economy. Which you will not.

Im not sure how advance Is250 timing is and if it is set for 95 or 98 RON. But most cars are tuned for 91. In the states and alot of Europe 98 RON is not even av.

98 ROD requires more advanced timing... Like i sad most cars ....:( waist of time,

The new Ford FG range will actually advance timing among other things and increase power and fuel eco on higher Octane fuels... IS250 again correct me with facts I dont think it does..... Opinion on this mater. Sorry can not be bothered looking.

My is250 is the weekenf car covers about 150km per week in so i dont care about the money and use 98..... If I had it as a daily it would be a differnt story....

PS differnt service station servie diffent blends of E10......

E10 means up to a maximum of 10% ethanol, Most petrol stations are no where near it most 2-3% ethanol....

Our fuel is supplied my many big guys as well alot of smaller providers that buy rubbish from Malasia... or so i hear...

[dis-lex-sic]

illusivedreams, first realistic post on this topic.....

[ilv1004s]

when i drove my 250 daily i used both fuels

it's not the fuel consumption it's the actual power delivery and how the car ran

on E10 it ran like dog *BLEEP* very rough. idle flux during idleing at lights

once i changed back to 98 it made a marginal improvement.

lag between throttle power deliveries in high rpm. E10 failed to get a tick with me.

our cars run very high compression and to be safe ill rather use the best aussie fuel suppliers can supply. lol

some times i even use ocatnce boosters to give my fuel system a bit of a clean lol

[LEX51S]

Higher ron higher price higher qaulity i want best qaulity for my engine. My 2c The end.

[k2sty1]

yep

im a student, and i pay for my fuel, and even i use 98 RON, and sometimes 95, cuz the place around my school dont have 98

[RichieISF]

That E10 stuff only shaggs ur engines , from everything from your lawn mower to your car,...

The average price for our cars is around 20-25k, up to over 100k for a Is-F, Why would anyone skimp on a buying *BLEEP* fuel.

Just my 2cents.

*reaches for flame suit.*

~Richie.

[Atlantis]

My parents owned a petrol station for 30 years (which I worked at for nearly 10). I've seen what ethanol blended fuels can do to certain vehicles.

My decision to purchase 98 octane "pure" petrol is from what I've seen with my own eyes, not hearsay.

[D1 Pete]

Ive always run all my cars on bp 98, heres a quick vid of my 250 on the dyno to gie u a idea what they make.

[Khanny]

Subby,

You've now been running your IS250 on E10 for nearly one year, lve just bought one a couple of months back and am keen to hear how its gone using the E10.

[Subby]

No Khanny, after reading the comments and advice of my more experienced forum members, haven't gone anywhere near an Ethanol-mixed fuel pump again!!!

As someone said in more colourful terms earlier, the savings are not worth the expense of possible repairs.

Subby

[ilv1004s]

though iv read somewhere

adding e10 with half a tank of 98 ocatance produced over 100 octane...

cant remember where but i read it on a magazine

[Lexus Nerd]

I know that your effective octane rating is the weighted average of the octane ratings of two fuels. For example, one-third of 95 RON fuel and two-thirds of RON 98 fuel would give an effective RON of 96.

That doesn't match up with what ilv might have read, so I Googled to see whether I could find anything about E10 fuel - which is between 91 and 95 RON, depending on the brand - becoming an octane booster for 98 RON PULP. I couldn't find anything to support that notion, but what I did find was interesting.

A discussion paper produced by an Australian government agency in 2002 quotes the US National Science and Technology Council (emphasis added):

Water in petrol can have dramatically different effects on an engine, depending on whether it is in solution or a separate phase. A small amount of water solution in a homogeneous ethanol/petrol blend has no adverse effect. If phase separation occurs and ethanol rich water is drawn into the engine then the engine will stall. Phase separation can occur in a vehicle's tank as a result of first fuelling with an ethanol blend then going out of the ethanol blend system. This situation arises if, for example, a quarter of a tank of ethanol blend is supplemented by three-quarters of a tank of petrol at refill, causing the concentration of ethanol in the blend to fall. It is therefore possible that in this situation, the presence of water normally contained within the ethanol blend may be sufficient to precipitate phase separation.

While I'm here, I might as well find add fuel to the fire (pardon the pun) and suggest that United PLUS ULP is not an appropriate substitute for premium unleaded petrol. In this fact sheet from RACQ, it can be seen that an ethanol-blended fuel, while having a higher RON, behaves more like regular unleaded at "high speed, light-throttle conditions":

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars/car_advice/car_fact_sheets/ethanol_blends_and_octane_number

Note the final statement: Unless proof is provided that a 95 RON ethanol blended fuel is a premium fuel with an appropriate MON rating, it would be wise to regard it as an ordinary ULP with a slightly higher octane rating. United avoids referring to PLUS ULP as "premium unleaded", simply referring to it as "high performance".

In summary, all E10 fuels sold in Australia today should be treated in your Lexus like regular unleaded fuel. It's not recommended, but it's okay ... until you decide to switch back to PULP, at which time you may experience engine stalling.

Now, I shall duck for cover ...

[coconut2001]

I use E10 in my is200, fuel economy has gone south.. wouldn't recommend it.

[LEX51S]

Ive heard a privare mechanic with fuel tanks at his shop adds an ethanol "blend" to 98 ron to achieve well over 100 ron.

Again note the hear say of this statement. I wish i knew more to advise you guys.